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Subject:   Traveller-digest V1996 #263
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Traveller-digest          Wednesday, 17 July 1996      Volume 1996 : Number 263

(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

         1. MegaCorporate Couriers
         2. Re: Pop Culture in Trav
         3. Re: Fighters in Space
         4. Year 0 - The Wonder years
         5. 2300AD
         6. Re: How the Imperium REALLY fell...Long and Cranky
         7. RE:Pop culture
         8. Re: Realism
         9. Re: Culture and Realism
        10. Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #261

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Stewart Eyres <spe@astro.keele.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 08:48:04 +0100
Subject: MegaCorporate Couriers

Hi there

>Do the MegaCorps and others maintain their own "private" XBoat...

In I.I.S.S. Ship Files (which is probably non-canonical) there was an
Express Packet Boat built by Blistein Yards and operated by Barracai
Technum as a private/commercial communications network.  The vessel
had similar capabilities as the Imperial Xboat, and had demountable
tanks for ease of refuelling (although I'm not sure how this fits in
with the rules.)  Oberlindes Lines operated some Patrol Cruisers
upgraded to J-5 as Line Couriers and Line Protectors.  Neither of
these systems could really do better than the Imperial Xboat system,
because neither company could justify the investment in the support
network to ensure rapid transfer - i.e. an Xboat waiting to travel
with the mail to the next system, Tenders standing by, Xmail offices
on world, etc.  The BT system offered rapid, small cargo haulage and
private message service at a special price, but it was only rapid
compared with scheduled transport.  The OL couriers were purely for
company business.  Compare with modern day: I may not be able to use
private couriers to send certain classes of mail, but there is no law
against me sending it with my own company's employee, and if I'm big
enough to employ people to do only that, who is to stop me?

On a related point, has anyone ever tried to by F-16 engines; I'm sure
you could do it easily, especially if you were using them for
commercial purposes (a fighter-technology based superfast courier?)

Stewart Eyres <spe@astro.keele.ac.uk>

------------------------------

From: Liam_McCauley@qsp.co.uk (Liam McCauley)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 10:25:11 +0200
Subject: Re: Pop Culture in Trav

     Paul Walker says:
     >I con't believe no one has mentioned "Are You Being Served!"
     
     Nope, that wasn't British.  It is actually a dubbed version of the 
     French programme "Servir Vous?".  Oh, yeah, and Benny Hill definitely 
     wasn't us either, no no no... Italian I think.  Of course, what very 
     few people realise is that "Friends" is a sit-com in West London.
     
     Cheers,
     Liam
     
     -- 
     Liam_McCaulye@QSP.co.uk
     

------------------------------

From: Bri <bri@teleport.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 09:28:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Fighters in Space

On Sun, 14 Jul 1996, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> >  Modern warships are another story, but that's simply because most ships
> > today aren't even armored(Rember, modern waships are built with the

> Not quite true. Modern anti-ship missiles are designed to go after
> modern ships. The Exocet that badly damaged the HMS Sheffield wouldn't
> do much of anything to the New Jersey or the Iowa.
 I hate to point this out, but the Iowa and New Jersey are WWII era
battleships, built with the assumptino of big guns during the dawn of
carrier warefare before it totalley took over.

> It *is* possible to carry enough armor, simply because air-to surface
> missiles have a restricted payload.  Ditto for surface to surface. They
> trade payload for *range*. There aren't any anti-ship missiles with the
> penetration of an 18-inch shell! But we built ships that were expected
> to survive multiple hits from such.
 See that's the thing, the Iowa and New Jersey are praticley the only
ships of that type in the _WORLD_, and their being decomissioned.
 Rember, that 99% of all ASM(anti ship missiles) are fragmentation, not
armour piercing. Frag wareheads do more damage then HEAT ones to a un
armored target, if people started armouring their ships everyone would
very quickley switch to HEAT warheads and then the armor would be
pointless.

> should go back to armoring at least *some* ships well enough to survive
> such.
 I would support maybe having a sub class for brown water operations(like
landing ships in trav), but that's about it.

> But fighters (aircraft) are *much* faster than capital ships. For that
> matter, PT boats are faster than capital ships! They trade speed for
> range, and agility for armor.
 Does this need to be pointed out? Fighters travel in AIR, which is much
less drag friendly then water.
 And rember, that's not true about alot of PT boats. Few PT boats can
break 30 knots travelled by humungo carriers and the ones that do are
likley hydrophoil or non-conventional hull and suited for brown water OPs
only.

> behind. No horizon, no clouds, and it never gets dark. It's one *hell*
> of a lot harder to "sneak up" on someone to make that quick dash into
> firing range.
 Yes, unfortunatley. That's also the reality of space combat, tho.
 One possibility would be to hide behind radiation clowds.

bri <bri@teleport.com>
The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the
poor, to sleep under the bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal
bread.      -- Anatole France


------------------------------

From: Darryl Adams <dtadams@ar.ar.com.au>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 18:37:21 +1000
Subject: Year 0 - The Wonder years

I have been going through my copy of the Imperial Encyclopedia (the only 
source I have for Rule Of Man/Long Night/Third Imperium). This may be 
interesting, as there seems to be questions need answering.

- -57 Cleon Zhunastu is born.

- -30 . Cleon asssumes control of the Sylean Federation. Embarks on a 
campaign of Assimulation. He is assisted by the fact that he has better 
technology (Re T4, Greg Porter and Mark Miller). It is hinted that the 
gainging of power in the Sylean Federation was not as nice and friendly 
as assumed. Cleon is 27(!)

0. Sylea now reaches the whole of what will be called Core Sector. He 
realises that  that the Federation is not suatable for a multi sector 
government. The Sylean Federation "persuades" Cleon to take the Iridium 
Throne.


+50 First contact between the Zhodani and Imperial Traders (Here I must 
assume it is in the Spinward Marches, or at least Corridor

+57 Cleon Dies.

+76 The start of the Pacification wars, where the Imperium forces planets 
to join it. Mainly Economic Warfare is used, but millitary forces are 
used as well. 

+110 The name Corridor is addopted for the Corridor Sector (replacing the 
Vilani name of Space Salad)

Why did Cleon stop his wars at Year 0? If he was hell bent to be seen as 
the sucessor of both the Rule of Man and the Ziru Sirka, did he stop at Core?
Unless the march of the Imperial ideal was so infective that whole 
sectors wanted to join? When did Vlan join the Imperium, and dit it join 
volentary. What was the extent of the Imperium at Year 15,30, and 45? 


>----------------------------------------------------------------------------<
Darryl Adams                                       

dtadams@ar.com.au
 
"But as a Mistral employee once told me,
Your only as good as your fans"	        	TISM : Play Mistral for Me 


------------------------------

From: Random Encounter <jonimv@evitech.fi>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 12:34:30 +0300 (EET)
Subject: 2300AD

I just recently loaned a copy of 2300AD but it does not have near star
list (or what ever it is called). It has a GM book, player's book and star
map. So it is quite difficult to play the game without that list.

I'd like to know if some of you kind souls would e-mail me that list
(excpesially if it is not too long to type) or a site that possibly has
that information.

Thanks in advance...



*******************************
*Random Encounter             *
*******************************
*"One for all and more for me"*
*                             *
*******************************


------------------------------

From: ROWAN Iain <wm0iro@acresearch.sunderland.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 96 10:21:00 PDT
Subject: Re: How the Imperium REALLY fell...Long and Cranky

 "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com> said

>Actually, the USSR never spent 60% of GNP on their military.  1 of
>the things that was debunked when the Soviet Union collapsed was how
>much money was spent on their military...  The CIA & DOD found it to
>be a lot less than they supposed...  Then again the USSR had a whole
>lot less to spend...

Of course if I was cynical I would argue that the CIA and DOD, and the
government in the UK knew full well that the USSR was spending less
on the military than was alleged, but for perfectly understandable
political reasons umm, forgot to mention it.

This does raise an interesting question.  When we read an account of
Imperial history, such as the posting which started this off, are we
reading the Actual God's Own Truth - a step out of the game which
provides an accurate account - or are we reading the perspective
on history which the average citizen of the Imperium (and therefore
most PC's) would have?  I seem to remember someone arguing
quite neatly on the list once that the portrayal of the Solomani as
nasty racists was just Imperial propaganda blackening the patriotic
nature of the Solomani society.

It strikes me that it would be quite neat for players to go into a
situation with certain expectations because of what they had
read, only to find those expectations confounded by reality.

Cheers
Iain
iain.rowan@sunderland.ac.uk


------------------------------

From: ROWAN Iain <wm0iro@acresearch.sunderland.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 96 11:47:00 PDT
Subject: RE:Pop culture

 Paul Walker <tiger@datasync.com> wrote

>>From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
>>Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 08:24:44 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Pop Culture in Trav
>>
>>On 16 Jul 96 at 7:17, derek stanley spewed:
>>
>>> You forgot Mister Bean and Red Dwarf.
>>
>>
>>Yup...I did...thanks for the addition...
>>

>I con't believe no one has mentioned "Are You Being Served!"

I'm glad you have.  Here in the UK we like to regard this as the
pinnacle of our cultural achievement, just pushing Benny Hill
into second place.  Shakespeare only comes 58th on the official
list as
 a) it's written with funny words
b) fair enough, there's lots of murders, but there aren't enough
upper middle class detectives solving them
c)His portrayal of female characters is ludicrously inadequate as
none of them run around the garden in their underwear.

Still, you did give us Saved by the Bell.  Cheers, guys.

Iain
iain.rowan@sunderland.ac.uk

------------------------------

From: Tom Ellis <tellis@telerama.lm.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 06:50:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Realism

On Tue, 16 Jul 1996, Stuart L. Dollar wrote:

> On 16 Jul 96 at 15:41, Tom Ellis spewed:
> 
> > THe only real problems with an interplanetary mission are engineering
> > details, no new technologies are needed.  For that matter, we have designs
> > *now* for a huge .1C craft using nuclear detonation for thrust....no
> > kidding.  The project was called Orion I believe.
> 
> Yeah, but who wants to volunteer for that mission...  :-)


More to the point, what happens if we rev up an Orion class ship to its
full .1c and SLAM it into some planet?


------------------------------

From: solsec@southern.co.nz (Andrew Vallance)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 23:45:18 +1200
Subject: Re: Culture and Realism

On: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:09:21 -0700 (PDT)
John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com did write

>All this talk of 20th century culture has lead me to agree with another
>poster. Why is the Imperium so much like the 20th Century First World?

It's not, nor was it intended as such. From what I understand the Imperium
was originally intended to be akin to 12th and 13th century France. A weak
or distant central authority with most of the day to day power and authority
vested in the local "nobility". What it appeared to rapidly evolve into was a
society more like that of 12th and 13th century England, a semi feudal
society with a strong central government which did wield considerable
influence on the day to day lives of it's citizens. Just for my Cr0.03754
(at for todays exchange rates), I think either model works well as a
setting. I prefer the French model, all those petty Counts and Dukes
vying with one another within the Imperium can give endless plots
and intrigues; and not a Zhodani in sight.

>It seems obvious that there would be a *vast* diversity of cultures in the
>Imperium and most of them would look very foreign to us.

True; and despite some efforts to this end, this was sadly neglected by
GDW et al. Much effort was spent on making suitably alien alien cultures,
but very little was spent on ensuring a believable variety of human
cultures.

>The easy answer is playability, but I see that as a cop-out.  Most players
>and GMs think nothing of role-playing in medieval Japan, Glorantha, or
>other fantasy settings with extremely foreign cultures.  Why must SF look
>like the 20th cen. US?  I hope the Folks as IG realize that the Imperium
>will be a whole lot more interesting if socio-cultural realism is given as
>high a priority as technical realism.

I see it more as marketablity. They made the culture to appeal to it's
primary target audience; i.e. the US and to a lesser degree the UK
and other English speaking markets.

My sincere hope for T4 is that it avoids the "It's another Ancient site
(or Rule of Man site)" syndrome which CT (and to a lesser extent
MT and TNE) fell into.

  Andrew etc.
    solsec@southern.co.nz

****************************************************************************
This is air traffic contol
All our operators are busy at the moment
So please land your plane after the tone
Beeeeeeeeepp.
****************************************************************************


------------------------------

From: Ron Dawson <rdawson@cgc.ns.ca>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 11:49:31 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #261

gdw.support@genie.com wrote:

>  Loren ("I know what was left in the warehouse when we shut down") Wiseman

Speaking of the warehouse, whatever happened to whatever stock was left?
I'm still missing a number of TNE books I'd like to get (Vampire Fleets,
Regency Source Book).  Distribution completely dried up towards the end.  

I also discovered a Challenge credit voucher (after the final day for
sending it in) which was something of a tease.  It was from my brother's
subscription and got lost over at our folks place for a few months.  Oh
well.  

- - Ron


------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1996 #263
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